This capitalization thing is killing me and I believe I have been discussing this with for over a month now.
Here is an excerpt from the last email I sent him.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To sum up for JD:
*Character names are fully capitalized – Example: Shaw Danon, Bilu, etc.
*Area names are fully capitalized – Example:IncenseValley- Vallee de l’Encens
*Item names have been capitalized following this rule:
-if by themselves, we just capitalized the first letter : Fire Sword – Epee de feu
-if in the middle of a sentence, we didn’t capitalize : You found a Fire Sword. – Vous avez trouve une epee de feu.
The reason for this is that in a quest text, the items to find are stated again at the end. For instance :
English
—–
XXX asked you to find a Fire Sword in area YYY to save the villagers.
Items to find:
1 Fire Sword
——
French:
——-
XXX vous a demande de trouver une epee de feu dans la zone YYY pour sauver les villageois.
Objets a trouver :
1 Epee de feu
—–
In this example, we can see clearly that there is no point in capitalizing the item name INSIDE the quest text since the players can check the items just underneath in the “items to find” section. No need to worry about visibility. Furthermore, capitalizing the item names would be contrary to the French language rules. Please keep in mind that we are localizing the game in FRENCH.
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is still discussing the capitalization issue with his clients now, which is why I didn’t inform you or the proofreaders about any changes since there might be no change at all.
The official policy right now is to keep the proper names (characters and areas) capitalized and to keep the item names in LOWER case. Except when they are by themselves, in which case we capitalize the very first letter just like if it was the beginning of a sentence.
The rules were updated for BOI only and I thought JM knew that. He just sent me an email so I will check with him.
With many thanks
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Ok, thanks a lot, I will get it done by tomorrow.
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To sum things up, things aren’t okay. 🙁
It isn’t your fault though, it’s just that the client is giving us all sort of flak. Don’t worry about it though, that’s what ‘s for. 😉
As for files, things are delayed a lot, but I’m hoping to catch up this week and next week.
Please go to the Open Ticket forum to find your assignment. It’s some 5000 words, but spread out across lots of files. Details there.
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I‚’ve uploaded a comment file for the latest glossary for BOI (Glossary_DEU_07Jun). You‚’ll find it at the bottom of the translator‚’s files here on this site (Glossary_DEU_07Jun_comments_ .doc). Can you tell about it?
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I have uploaded file French_JD_100201_Localize_1c_for JM.xls: http://001yourtranslationservice.com/cgi-bin/ls_1001_PR.cgi
with my questions, can you please have a look?
thanks!
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I downloaded the files. Where are the questions?
JM
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Nevermind, I found them.
JM
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Thank you for your questions.
Line 76: “Skysong” instead of “Jadeon”
1062-1069: follow the glossary, change “frenetique” into “de frenesie”
1182-1185: it’s not in the glossary, I would go for “sang de fer”
1203-1212: your suggestions are fine, we have to follow the 31-character limitation
1219: fine, we have to follow the glossary
1884-1895: fine
2145: use the term from the glossary
We decided to stick to the glossary in order not to create further inconsistencies, even if some translations are weird.
If you have concerns about some entries, contact, he is the lead translator for French.
Don’t change any capitalization one way or another, no agreement has been reached yet.
You are doing fine so far.
JM
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merci!
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I will inform, but you can message him directly via this website in the same way how you message me.
On the other side, you can upload the glossary also to the uploading server where you usually deliver the files, and then also other proofreaders will have access to it.
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How are you?
I received a message from , he asked me to inform you, that he uploaded a comment file for the latest glossary for BOI (Glossary_DEU_07Jun). It is found at the bottom of the translator‚’s files here on this site (Glossary_DEU_07Jun_comments_ .doc).
I informed him he can message you directly, so I guess for future communications that’s what he will do.
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Quick question: do we have to wait to ask for new files until we are done with the translation of all assigned files or can we ask for files so we never run out of work?
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I just wanted to inform you that I uploaded the improved glossary a while ago in the BOI/Proofreading section.
I informed too, I just want to make sure everyone knows to make things easier.
With many thanks
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We are finishing German JD today. There is one issues I wanted to ask you about.
In some rare occasions, there are inconsistencies in the German JD glossary. For example:
ChuElite Guard – Chu-Elite-Wachter
against
Han Elite Guard – Han-Elite-Wache
There is a difference in translation of the word “Guard”. The problem is that they were used in file 5c, where this inconsistency is very obvious – they follow right one after the other.
What do you suggest to do? To correct both to Wachter or to Wache or to stick to glossary (will be different)?
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Yes, I recommend you to ask for more files before you are done with the previous ones. Post a message on Z_Get category on OT, saying when do you expect to finalize the files you work on now, and what is your capacity for next days.
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I’m sorry for these inconsistencies. I suggest changing it to “Wachter”, but if it would cause much trouble it wouldn’t hurt overly if we left it as is, as the two words have almost no difference in meaning.
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thank you for getting back to me.
In 20,000 lined some mistakes are almost unavoidable. I am not sure if we can make changes in the glossary, but I think it would be better if I changed the file, as it appears in the first lines and very visible. Since “consistency” is main prayer of our client, I don’t want him to spot it so easily.
But meantime I found a mistake – Soulock Boots appear in glossary as Seelenschloss-Rustung, which means armor. This I have to change, as it changes the meaning. Should it be Seelenschloss-Stiefel?
Thank you.
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yes, that is another mistake, please change it.
Thank you!
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This is just to inform you that I have just uploaded the reports for files 16abcd. It’s in the report section under the name stated.
Sorry about the delay, I was working on the BOI glossary again. I am back on track now and will speed up to finish all this proofreading.
Please let me know if you need anything
With many thanks
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I would go for : “Etes-vous nouveau ici ?” simply because it sounds more natural and less literal.
If “student” is important for the context, I would go for: “Etes-vous nouveau ici, jeune homme ?”
Let me know if you have questions.
JM
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Are you available to check some files for JD project?
We are deliveringght, and one of the people who was expected to work suddenly informed me he needs to leave for some hours. It is main priority, and continuation of BOI depends on what will we deliver today.
Please let me know if you have time in the next few hours. If yes, please open an OT ticket for that and I will assign you some files.
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Are you available to check some files for JD project?
We are deliveringght, and one of the people who was expected to work suddenly informed me he needs to leave for some hours. It is main priority, and continuation of BOI depends on what will we deliver today.
Please let me know if you have time in the next few hours. If yes, please open an OT ticket for that and I will assign you some files.
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I‚’m available for a few hours. I already have an OT for translation and proofreading.
Please have a look at Case Tracking ID: JNUU8YR18E and give me the details.
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just to make sure you got my ticket (I opened in Z_Get, was that correct)? I am availableght if you need me.
Best,.
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I am contacting you again because I have just read ‘s email about capitalization issues.
Would it be possible for you to tell me if the following two examples are right?
Example 1:
To collect Yellaflora Wood
In order to rebuild the headquarters of Lupin, please collect 50 pieces of Yellaflora Wood and hand them to Baner Po inSunstreamCity.
becomes
Sorry to bother you with that. I hope those translations are both ok.
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As far as capitalization goes, both examples are fine. The second translation is wrong though.
It should be: “Peau de rhinoceros intacte Allez a la Crete du Dragon et prenez 20 peaux de rhinoceros aux Defenseurs anciens.” In your sentence, the verb would be “recuperer de” which makes no sense in this contact. Be careful when you proofread, most translators did not translate “collect from” correctly.
Same thing with sentences like “Get your reward from Baner Po”. The translation should be “Allez chercher votre recompense aupres de Baner Po” instead of “Allez chercher votre recompense de BanerPo”.
I hope this helps.
JM
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I would have loved to help with the proofreading, unfortunately I have too much work at the moment.
I will let you know when I am available again.
Bon courage!
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Just wanted to let you know the reason for uploading file 163 twice yesterday was that I noticed an untranslated segment.
Also: I have a file with comments, should I upload them as a translated file or how else should I send it to you?
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tells me that today is the final deadline for JD and instructed me to ask you if you needed me for polishing up on JD. He said that my BOI work is currently a little lower in priority if you have something.
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I’m happy to get your help! I will attach to one of your OT tickets file 6b, which had driven me crazy last night.
It had been proofread and even abbreviated to 31 chars, but:
– quite lot of terms which are not consistent with glossary. I replaced alot, but there is a great chance I missed many others.
– inconsistent abbreviations of same term
– abbreviation “to death” which makes it unreadable. Please try to find better solutions for abbreviations
– Recipe should be translated as “Rezeptur”, not “Rezept” – think there is some of it left
I was correcting quite alot comparing to glossary… But finished the file with feeling that main problem – these abbreviations – are still there.
The rest is in your hands. Please try to make the best out of this file.
Please confirm on OT when you will receive the file, I will attach it right away.
Thank you.
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Bonjour
Pensez-vous que Gardien de Charogne est un nom de personnage, ou est-ce juste une description?
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I never encountered that term, so it’s up to you to decide.
JM
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We are working on proofreading the remaining files of Jade Dynasty project in attempt to elevate the overall quality and consistency.
Would you be available to take part?
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I am available for BOI. Please give me the latest instuctions and guidelines, too.
Fricke
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thank you for asking me if I want to participate to the proofreading process.
Actually I did not get any payment yet for the work I delivered. Even if my contribution was small, you will understand that I reserve my answer for the moment when our counts are clear. I don’t think you are responsible oh this situation, but maybe can you help to resolve it ?
.
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I’m not sure if you received my message yesterday. I wanted to inform you, that I’m available for new files.
If you had it received please ignore this message.
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I informed , he asked that you e-mailed him directly.
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We are working on proofreading the remaining files of Jade Dynasty project in attempt to elevate the overall quality and consistency.
Would you be available to take part?
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Thank you for the proposal, but I’m afraid that I won’t be available during the weekend, if the files has to be done for Tuesday it’s ok, but I won’t be able to deliver by Monday, sorry.
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I have several requests to you as I’m trying to organize things.
1. Now that the client finally accepted the fact that French had different capitalization rules then English, it is clear what needs to be done. But I fear that some of our proofreaders may feel seriously confused with instructions changing every week. Please write short instructions with examples – what to capitalize and what not. For example,RoyalCity- I saw some people not capitalize not cite and not royale; some others capitalize only Royale and not the cite. OrIncenceValley, Wildlands
– same issue. Or some character names which are combined form title and name, like Chief Tigeranto (I assume Tigeranto is a name). Or Wulor Warrior, Beast Lord etc…
There is also some inconsistency in the glossary in this issue.
Please give some examples translators would be easy to follow. Please also send it to me.
2. had uploaded files she proofread. Can you please take a look and evaluate quality?
Usual file: http://001yourtranslationservice.com/uploadedfiles_001/PR/001_JD.repair/French_JD_100201_Localize_7c_improved%20.xls
Item list file:
http://001yourtranslationservice.com/uploadedfiles_001/PR/001_JD.repair/French_JD_100201_Localize_7d_%20improved.xls
3. I asked to upload her files with “track changes” on. Can you please take a look to make sure she does the right thing:
http://001yourtranslationservice.com/uploadedfiles_001/PR/001_JD.repair/French_JD_100201_Localize_1c_.xls
http://001yourtranslationservice.com/uploadedfiles_001/PR/001_JD.repair/French_JD_100201_Localize_1d_.xls
4. Same with (I didn’t ask to track changes):
http://001yourtranslationservice.com/uploadedfiles_001/PR/001_JD.repair/French_JD_100201_Localize_8a_updated.xls
http://001yourtranslationservice.com/uploadedfiles_001/PR/001_JD.repair/French_JD_100201_Localize_8c.xls
5. Are the files you uploaded (16a-d) the final versions? I want to begin vetting.
I know I’m asking for many things and it will slow your proofreading down, but if we don’t check proofreaders do the right thing now, we will pay for it later.
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Allright I’ll just finish the file I am currently proofreading and I’ll take care of these assignments during the afternoon.
The files I have uploaded are supposed to be ready for vetting but since we have discussed a lot of issues with JM and the other proofers since the upload I would rather take another look at them just in case.
Also, I need to review one of’s files that she uploaded a while ago. I need to search my mailbox to find which one it is, I’ll get back to you during the afternoon regarding this issue too.
I think we have a 3 hours time difference or something, sorry if it’s almost the end of the day already for you, I’m going to need some time to do all this.
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due to discussions with the end client, we may have to revert our laissez-faire policy on some of the term-building for the glossary. This concerns in my opinion especially those compounds of deity or hero’s names and gear or skills, such as Apollo’s Belt or Anubis’s Judgment.
So far, we have in the glossary:
Themis’ Boots – Themis’ Stiefel
Apollo’s Boots – Stiefel des Apollo
Anubis’s Judgement – Anubis’ Urteil
Anubis Potion – Anubis-Trank
Could you have a look at this table and tell me if you think it is helpful/feasible:
English German Example English Example German Alternative (ONLY IF ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY)
Concrete of Person Konkretum der Person Belt of Anubis Gurtel des Anubis
Concrete of Abstract Abstraktum-Konkretum Belt of Music Musik-Gurtel
Concrete of Concrete Konkretum-Konkretum Barrel of Ale Bier-Fass
Concrete Concrete Konkretum-Konkretum (if possible!) Iron Belt Eisen-Gurtel
Name’s Concrete Namens Konkretum Anubis'(s) Belt Anubis’ Gurtel
Name Concrete Name-Konkretum Anubis Belt Anubis-Gurtel
Abstract of Name Namens Abstraktum Wish of Anubis Anubis’ Wunsch Wunsch des Anubis
Name’s Abstract Namens Abstraktum Anubis’ Wish Anubis’ Wunsch
Name Abstract Name-Abstraktum Anubis Skill Anubis-Fahigkeit
General Person’s Concrete Allg. Person-Konkretum Warrior’s Ceremonial Staff Krieger-Zeremonien-Stab
General Person Concrete Allg. Person-Konkretum Warrior Gem Krieger-Edelstein
Abstract Concrete Abstraktum-Konkretum Void Biter Leere-Beiser
Name General Person Name-Allg. Person Anubis Soldier Anubis-Soldat
Abstract Concrete Concrete Abstraktum-Konkretum-Konkretum Thunder Leopard Teeth Donner-Leoparden-Zahne
General Person Concrete Concrete Allg. Person-Konkretum-Konkretum Warrior Gem Boots Krieger-Edelstein-Stiefel
General Person’s Concrete Concrete Allg. Person-Konkretum-Konkretum Champion’s Gem Boots Meister-Edelstein-Stiefel Edelstein-Stiefel des Meisters
Abstract: skills, abilities, nature, music, luck, judgment, wish, etc.
Name: Anubis, Apollo, Themis, Howard, etc.
General Person: Warrior, Carpenter, Champion, Soldier, etc.
Concrete: items, gear, scenery, props, etc.
I know this is very hard to argue and even harder to carry out, but it seems the client is obsessed with consistency.
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I wasn’t aware of such plans until you told me. I’ve asked for details but he hasn’t answered yet. If we really need to change capitalization rules (I wonder what they want to change it TO??), the first step would be to argue against it :-). Other than that, we would have to change A LOT of glossary terms and A LOT of text already translated.
In that context I’m warning you of a major glossary change as well, due to tribulations with the client about cross-term consistency. But we have nothing final yet.
Also, told me she applied for more proofreading and hasn’t heard from the team yet.
Fabian is ready to get in as translator, too, so if he’s needed, you could tell me and I will forward contacts.
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I agree that the first step is to argue against it. I’m hoping if mentions the cost in time and money they’ll reconsider that. I find that people demand a lot when they think they can get it for free, but show them a tally of the real cost and they’ll start asking “is it really necessary”?
As for , odd, I replied to her twice between the first time I contacted you and now. Of course, the news weren’t good. I discovered that our approach of using filters are allowing out-of-context pretranslation to get through the proofreaders. Am asking if we can switch to full proofreading to prevent this.
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In general, indeed I think such a kind of list makes a lot of sense and should make decisions easier for the translators (of course, there will be problematic individual cases, but overall, I welcome such specific guidelines).
On the other hand:
With cases like Belt of Anubis, Anubis Belt and Anubis’ Belt there is a lot of variation in the source, so I wonder whether the client really wants us to preserve this kind of variation? To me, it would make more sense to use just “Anubis’ Gurtel” (or a variant) *always*, as I would assume that always the same (type of) item is referred to, so I don’t really see the point of having this kind of variation in the English and why we should preserve it.
In my opinion, if the client wants consistency, wouldn’t it be better to always use “Namens Konkretum”, no matter whether the original is “Concrete of Person”, “Person Concrete”, or “Person’s Concrete”?
The same principle is true for the other cases, e.g.
General Person Concrete Concrete | Allg. Person-Konkretum-Konkretum | Warrior Gem Boots | Krieger-Edelstein-Stiefel
General Person’s Concrete Concrete Allg. | Person-Konkretum-Konkretum | Champion’s Gem Boots | Meister-Edelstein-Stiefel | Edelstein-Stiefel des Meisters
why have an alternative in the second case, but not in the first? I think we may as well try to avoid ANY possessive “Konkretum des Besitzers” constructions, and keep our schema as simple as possible.
Of course, I haven’t talked to the client, and if the preservation of the different source forms is exactly what they want, that’s ok with me. It just seems to make more sense to come up with one kind of schema for naming things and sticking with it no matter what, rather than consistently preserving inconsistencies that are already there.
So in my opinion, we should come up with a schema based on the meaning of the words, rather than based on the source form.
Just my 2 ct.
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thank you for your comments, I agree with you on most of your statements. The trouble is that the client has so far said to “stick to the source as closely as possible”. Whether this means that they want to preserve the (sometimes inconsistent and low quality) source I cannot say, but will definitely ask them through . I have to say that some of the variation was allowed by me based on your (valid) concerns about terms getting ugly and possibly hard to understand. We may indeed have to simply formulate simple and strict rules, but that would also include going back and adjusting much of what has been done so far. In case we agree on that, I would opt for:
Use hyphenated constructions WHEREVER possible.
Also, for possesive forms, we use Genitive with s, and avoid using … des/der … as much as possible (although I think that sounds much better in some contexts). Would you agree with that?
Thank you much for your helpful input.
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yes, in the light of this, I’d agree to hyphenated versions whenever possible, and genitives without des/der… it may be ugly to read, but it is the easiest rule, and will *look* consistent.
Still curious what the client will say about the inconsistencies in the source…
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told me to refer to you: I have a translator (Fabian) ready to do some work. told me he should contact you (through virtual office), but he’s not yet in the system. Can you add him?
THank you!
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I have uploaded a report about these files on the server, the file name is “QC Report French”.
I will review my own files tomorrow and upload them so as you can go ahead with the vetting. Will comment on the capitalization at that point too.
Please let me know if you need additional information about the report in the meantime
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I am finishing accounting for the last serie of proofreading fot JDGerman. How much time did you spend working on 6b?
Thank you.
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Hello I spent 2,5 hours on it.
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I had read carefully the Quality Reports. I will make sure to inform the proofreaders. As you see, there is really a lack of clear instruction about capitalization, so if you could dedicate time to precise guidelines with as many examples as possible, it would be excellent. I fear that if proofreaders will persist miscapitalizing it will not work on the favor of the consistency we try to achieve.
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suggested Smart Tools, a software add-on to Microsoft Office. He uses it himself.
From the look of it, it seems suitable for our purposes, but I don’t know if you’re a microsoft office or open office user.
Have a look at the screenshot.
http://translationstop.com/files/FTP/screenshot.jpg
Software can be found at the same site. Just look for the .exe
Think it will be useful?
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suggested Smart Tools, a software add-on to Microsoft Office. He uses it himself.
From the look of it, it seems suitable for our purposes, but I don’t know if you’re a microsoft office or open office user.
Have a look at the screenshot.
http://translationstop.com/files/FTP/screenshot.jpg
Software can be found at the same site. Just look for the .exe
Think it will be useful?